A universal female behavior is not answering the phone when a guy calls for the first time. I don’t care what her age is, what race she is, where you met her, or how long you macked to her, but she will not pick up the phone when you call. It’s such a 100% certainty that I call knowing full well I will be leaving a message. It doesn’t bother me because the time it takes for her to call back is great indicator of how I should proceed.

If she…

1. Answers the phone. Desperate, pathetic loser. Who answers the phone from unknown numbers? Tell her you are calling from the Herpes Clinic and you got some good news and bad news. But mostly bad news.
2. Calls back within an hour or two. Immediate top billing. Take her to at least one nice place on the first date.
3. Calls back same night after a couple hours. Slight game player. Treat her as a sex object first, then maybe as a real person later.
4. Calls back the next day or after. Whatever. Amuse yourself with absurd phone conversations and potential “lets meet up” plans. Or put her on the one-date-hail-mary plan where you go for it all on the first date without regard to how sleazy you may seem. Can you say… dollar beer night?

This system isn’t bulletproof, for I have had girls that turned out to be hardcore flakes call me back within a few minutes. But a good rule of thumb is the faster the call-back, the stronger her interest. Reward the girls who are most interested. Don’t waste your time with a game-player; let some other chump subsidize her alcoholism.

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Do the same rules apply to guys? BC you know you guys are playing the same game. Waiting a certain amt of days to call after you meet us…Not too early bc then you seem desperate but not too late bc then you are playing the same game…I love the guys that call within the first 3 days but no SOONER than the 3 day…what point that is trying to prove I dont know…but it still makes me giggle.

You are 100% right-on here.

Yeah guys do seem to stick to that 3rd day don’t they? Funny. Think you have a good point about the phone call tho DCB. I also want to add that a guy shouldn’t text message a girl the first time he wants to ask her out. That happened to me recently and it was a major turnoff. Was he afraid to talk to me?

What if you’re a guy who really does work at the herpes clinic? Cover every angle, DCB, cover every angle…

When I wait 4-9 days it seems girls always pick up the phone(75% of the time), they wonder why the hell have you not called. You can read alot about this theory from doc love. I never leave a message unless I have met them up first, its like getting a message through a third party(girls see that as weak). Also stay off the phone as much as possible. Girls want to chat and find out all about you. After that, they are thru with you. Keep the mystery, and set up a meeting quickly, end the call first. That stuff is golden.

Other tips to use:

Announce who you are. Don’t say, “Do you remember me?” Presume everyone remembers you, and never remind them where you met.

Make a joke. “Remember how we were talking about the sexiest food and you said watermelon? Well, I fed some watermelon to my cat and he is looking at me in the strangest way. . . .”

Ask her what she is doing at that moment. If she is watching TV, ask her to turn it off for five minutes and talk with you. If she is studying, ask her to put the books down. She needs to commit to having an undistracted conversation for five minutes. If she doesn’t, hang up.

Tell her you want to see her. Don’t be tricky. It should be about the two of you and not the “date.”

Arrange to meet close to when it gets dark,no one hooks up during the day. I highly recommend taking her to a place where you are sure to be the best-looking guy. Try a neighborhood bar where old people hang out.

Achanged Man-Love the old person bar tip. Thats a good one actually. BUT I disagree with not leaving a message… if you dont leave a message-its like you never even called…girls dont view messages as weak (or 3rd party)…we view the call and no message as flaky and disturbing. We dont know YOUR number and if you keep calling hoping to catch us but not leaving a message until you do…we’ll see 10 missed calls from the same number and think you are stalking us….

WTF? Who are you aChangedMan, El Greco? Puh-leeze.

When I read posts like this, I just wanna sever my penis from my body. The things guys have to go through to either A)Meet a quality woman B) Get some ass. I swear I hate playing the cellphone/time game with woman. You call too soon, you must be a serial killer, call to late your a f-ing clown. Call at the right time and your in there. When did relationships turn into a missle launch??

I never realized guys viewed it that way. Note to self, call back within an hour or two and I get dinner.

How about this DCB. I wait 3 to 4 weeks then call her, stating, “Hey, I was cleaning out my wallet and found this number. Did we fuck?”

Now that’s money. (Swingers)

I never get why people play phone games. It’s like it takes longer to calculate “Well if Jim called me on X day, I need to call him X+3/4 squared for him not to think I’m a loser, but still know I’m interested” rather than just call the person back in a couple of hours.

Obviously, don’t call right back after he leaves the message, then he knows you’re screening.

“Ask her what she is doing at that moment. If she is watching TV, ask her to turn it off for five minutes and talk with you. If she is studying, ask her to put the books down. She needs to commit to having an undistracted conversation for five minutes. If she doesn?t, hang up.”

If I tell a woman that she would probably laugh at me and hang up. Why should she take away 5 minutes on something important on what she is doing like say studying and talk to someone she doesn’t even know? She would probably say call her back or she would call me back.

I think sometimes you dont call back that night bc you are busy…its not about games or any of that crap–you just happen to have a life.

I usually call back whenever I can. Once I met a guy in Adams Morgan on a Saturday night, gave him my number. He called on Wednesday around 7, and I was totally excited that he had called, but by the time I checked my phone and got the message it was time for my book club meeting. When I got out of book club and dropped my friend off at home, it was 10:00 p.m. My general rule for people I don’t know, is to never call them before 10:00 a.m. and never after 10 p.m. You never have any idea when they go to sleep, etc. So I figured I would just call the next day. Innocent enough. I started getting phone calls at 1:30 a.m. and woke up. I look at the phone, see that it’s him and don’t answer. This is completely inappropriate. He proceeds to call four more times. I finally answer the fifth time. He is totally wasted and I explain to him that I HAD been excited to hear from him, and was planning on calling him back but got busy and it was too late. I told him I would call him the next day. He calls like two more times that night. The next day I listened to messages and they were absurd. “Why won’t you call me back?” “I’m mesmerized by you.” “I love you.” “We would have such a good time together.” Blah Blah Blah. What a freak. I did try to give him the benefit of the doubt and went on a date with him once, but it was completely tragic.

I’m very skeptical of aChangedMan’s tactics:

a. Most women will not go out with you if they don’t remember you. FYI.

b. Make a joke, fine, but only do so if you’re capable of being witty. Referencing your cat in a sexual way to someone you hardly know is, by and large, a bad idea.

c. Ask her to stop what she’s doing? No. Don’t. Just say “do you have a minute” and let her decide whether she wants to talk to you.

d. Take her to a place where old people hang out? Are you crazy? You should take her someplace fun that’s perhaps indicative of your personality and what you like to do. You don’t want to send the message that you’re a senior citizen. Unless you are one.

Brilliant!

I’d be pissed if some jackass tried to tell me to give him five minutes of my time in such a condescending manner. You better have something RIVETING to say if you’re going to open with that line.

Also, when a guy calls me and I say I’m watching TV or reading or whatever, there’s a 100% chance I paused the TiVo or put the book down when I answered the phone. So your request is retarded.

As, possibly, are you.

I agree with AChangedMan. He and I both found Doc Love to be very helpful.

Now why I disagree with RCR

a. Most women will not go out with you if they don?t remember you. FYI.
–Duh. But to ask, “Do you remember me?” shows insecurity on your part. Have a backbone and believe that you’re such a great guy they gotta remember you.

b. Make a joke, fine, but only do so if you?re capable of being witty. Referencing your cat in a sexual way to someone you hardly know is, by and large, a bad idea.
–Never say something sexual at first about HER. The cat thing is fine.

c. Ask her to stop what she?s doing? No. Don?t. Just say ?do you have a minute? and let her decide whether she wants to talk to you.
–Umm, yes. She needs to be able to stop what she is doing and give you her time undistracted. If she does, its a clear signal to you that she’s at least got a good interest level in you. “Do you have a minute” is weak, again, you’re not expressing confidence.

d. Take her to a place where old people hang out? Are you crazy? You should take her someplace fun that?s perhaps indicative of your personality and what you like to do. You don?t want to send the message that you?re a senior citizen. Unless you are one.
–First Date, you go get coffee. 1 Hour tops. Of of the Doc’s best ideas.

–I’ve yet to meet a guy who subscribes to Doc’s advice who hasn’t seen his dating life dramatically improve.

Ok, I’ll rebut:

a. I’m not saying that you should say do you remember me. I’m saying that you should say, “hey, it’s X from Y the other night.”

b. The cat thing is most definitely not fine. The cat thing is uber lame.

c. I defer to Kathryn’s comment.

d. You didn’t disagree with me. Coffee, fine, whatevs. Old people? No.

I honestly can not remember if I played the don’t-pick-up-the-phone-the-first-time-he-calls kind of game. I am sure I have a few times back in the day to see what kind of message he was leaving, if any.

As long as a guy doesn’t take the Mikey from Swingers way of calling, then I don’t think I’d really care much about the ‘industry standard’ rules if I was still single. Calling right away like Mike did was just kind of pathetic. If a guy waited more than 3 days to call, well, I’d assume that I wasn’t a top pick for him, and probably end up doing what DCB said and not pick up.

Relationship games make life more enjoyable which IMO is why we play them. problem is, unlike other games, there is no common rulebook. DCB why don’t you, kathyrn and Cookie write one? It’d be much better then Doc Love, whoever that is.

Holiday, how long after meeting Adam did you go on the date?

Well he lived in Richmond, so we talked on the phone and emailed for three weeks, minus crazy late night calls (I tried to decide that it was a fluke), before he came back up here and we went out. Like I said, it was tragic.

“As, possibly, are you.”

LOL, Kathryn!!!

Gotta go with stephen here. RCR you are completely wrong. If you have to tell a girl where and when you met her then you are basically acknowledging that you have low value, and that you are not important enough to be remembered for the day or two you took to call her.

That’s the most twisted and honestly stupid logic I’ve heard since we went to war. Here’s how it would go down in your world:

Ring Ring
Her: Hello
You: Hi, it’s Douchebag, please turn off your tv for five minutes so we can have an uninterrupted conversation.
Her: [thinking: I know dozens of Douchebags] Um, who?
You: Douchebag
Her: Douchebag who?
You: Douchebag Jones
Her: click

But I defer to the women: do you remember every random cheesedick that asks for your number, based solely on a first name with no context?

“But I defer to the women”

Clearly.

“You: Hi, it?s Douchebag, please turn off your tv for five minutes so we can have an uninterrupted conversation.”

LOL, RCR.

I would definitely be more turned off by someone TELLING ME WHAT TO DO with the next five minutes of my life than by someone who wants to make sure I remember him.

A simple, “Hi, this is John, we met at 18th Street Lounge the other night” is great. It refreshes the memory, doesn’t assume to much, and doesn’t sound nervous/”weak.”

My girlfriends and I HATE the blowhard who assumes we know them on the phone. The worst is the text message from a number you don’t know: “Hey, what’s up?” No name.

I also agree that saying where you met the girl is fine. There’s a difference between saying confidently, “Hi, this is Smart Good-Looking Guy, I met you at Cool Place on Friday. How are you?” and wimping, “Hi? This is Loser? I met you on Friday? At Too Cool For Me Place?”

rcr=gamma male

RCR, of course you’re going to get hung up on if your name is Douchebag Jones. That’s not a fair example.

Sometimes nice guys finish first.

“Sometimes nice guys finish first.”

you’ll find a girl who remembers you one day.. dont you ever give up.

Anonymous, please. Is that the best you could do? You could have at least said:

“Yeah, all the girls know that you finish first”

or something actually insulting.

?Yeah, all the girls know that you finish first? !!!

Right now, RCR = B-Rabbit from “8 Mile”:

“And fuck this battle I don’t wanna win, I’m outtie
Here, tell these people somethin they don’t know about me.”

hahaha
Ring Ring
Her: Hello
You: Hi, it?s Douchebag, please turn off your tv for five minutes so we can have an uninterrupted conversation.
Her: [thinking: I know dozens of Douchebags] Um, who?
You: Douchebag
Her: Douchebag who?
You: Douchebag Jones
Her: click

So funny RCR. My philosophy from a girl that likes DCB’s column but is not looking to date a guy with a different dating attitude.

Don’t call and NOT leave a message. Looks weak and insecure and who wants that.

If you really like her - never text. For wimps and, if you want to score either way, phone calls have more impact.

The cat story is just baaaad. You don’t know humor. If someone goes down a weird sexual path on a phone conversation, I would be outta there fast.

Just a few thoughts….

RCR don’t be upset that your chump moves can’t handle the high bore game discussed here. Don’t you have some crappy high school band to be talking about?

Oh boy RCR brought out the “nice guy” comment

DCB, you should do a post on the “nice guy”

As a now recovering “nice-guy” going on a year and a half of sobriety, I can say this:

Those who say “I’m a nice guy” are excusing their lack of testicular fortitude.

Being a nice guy is a copout for not growing a set and risking rejection, getting rejection, and moving on to the next opportunity.

I’m a beautiful, smart, laid-back girl, and all I want is a nice guy.

Just seems like the type of girl who’s going to be impressed by a guy doing what ChangedMan is saying has probably been talked down to her whole life because she’s not that bright or has no self-esteem and longs for men to walk all over her, just so she can have a couple more reasons to hate herself. Now, if that’s what you’re looking for, great. I personally would either get really pissed off or laugh incredulously. Pick a reaction - and those are seriously your only two choices.

Anon - I’m not upset, trust me. I don’t have “moves” or play “game.” That’s because I’m an “adult.”

Stephen - I never have to risk rejection because I always get what I want. There are ways to get your girl that don’t involve any games at all.

Stephen, there is a difference between being a nice guy and a guy who risks rejection. I’m a nice guy, but I get numbers constantly and go on dates just as easily. My mantra is nothing ventured, nothing gained. But just because you are a nice guy doesn’t mean that they lack ‘testicular fortitude’ or fear rejection.

If they like you

1.) they pick up the phone
2.) they are busy at the moment and can’t talk for various reasons — so they let it go to voicemail and call you back in a few hours.

If they are waiting days or a day then the girl is
1.) not really that interested, but calling you because she hasn’t gotten laid in a while and you are better then nothing.
2.) a total rules playing idiot that really isn’t worth your time.

My mantra (Which always works) is

“If they like you, the make it easy”

stop rationolizing — stop hoping — stop making excuses —

ask yourself how long it took you to call back a girl you liked.? Less then a few hours.

People have fragile egos and low self-esteem so they rationalize EVERYTHING.

remember
“If they like you, they make it easy”
and
“Hope is a terrible risk manager”

Tom –

tom is brilliant!

ayla.. send me an email when you get the chance because i need to ask a question

Thanks for the compliment. I talk like I get laid all the time. If it was only true.

always like the line:

“Hope is a terrible risk manager”

Stephen, there is a difference between being a nice guy and a guy who risks rejection. I?m a nice guy, but I get numbers constantly and go on dates just as easily. My mantra is nothing ventured, nothing gained. But just because you are a nice guy doesn?t mean that they lack ?testicular fortitude? or fear rejection.

Comment by Brian on 03/08/06.

Brian, your definition is different then the one Stephen is talking about. You are talking about the nice guy that a normal guy would think, by normal guy I mean guys who haven’t read FastSeduction, Ross Jeffries, David D’Angelo, RL, Lay Guide, etc. Stephen is talking about the AFC (Average Frustrated Chump), where you are talking about just being a nice-guy. To use a cliche, one who will help and old lady cross the road type. Stephen is talking about the “nice guy” which just a non-insulting way of saying a guy who gets walked all over.

“That?s because I?m an ‘adult.’”

The kind of adult that only sees twat when confronted with a mirror.

To quote RCR “Sometimes nice guys finish first.”

It?s called premature ejaculation!

To those who hated on my advice and your a male, knock it after you try it, those are guides, tips pointers. Not rules, if your game is so tight and you have better phone game, school me. I have the lowest flake rate out of any guy I know for meets after the phone.

A.B.C. = always be closing

For the girls who dissagree, I will lump you into a few possible categories
1.)guys probably never ask for you number, you have ideals built up from lame movies, and think you know what you want in a relationship.You talk from less expierence, and more from your arse. Exercise and watch tlc makeovershows, then guys will take notice.

2.)Your a girl that thinks this stuff sounds horrible, but when you have a fun upbeat conversation with a guy that makes you laugh, is confident, and direct will drive you crazy. you will hate on all these tips, but they will drive you crazy… trust me.

3.)Your a girl who meets a guy with game, but you have tricks of your own to break him. You act out meanly towards him, because your mom had a spineless man, and thats what you either want, or will create.(DCB has a post I think of what happens after this)

achangedman (I’m presuming a sex change),

I already made the premature ejaculation joke. Nice try though.

Muffin,

Yes, sometimes I like to look at your mom’s twat through a mirror. Considering her girth, it’s the only way to see it.

And, aChangedMan? You are = you’re. Not your. Whether your phone thing works or not, you are, at base, semi-literate. Good luck out there.

My policy is to shake a douchebag after they hand me my drink. If that doesn’t work a fake number (and name, natch) usually do the trick: http://www.rejectionline.com/copycat.html

Key is you have to tell him it’s your home/office # or else he will be retarded (”mentally challenged” for those PCers out there) and try to call your phone right away “so you have his number.” Gag. Or he gives you his number and wants you to call him right there from the bar so he can see you aren’t dropping fake digits. Usually telling a douche you don’t have a cell phone is an effective conversation ender. But surprisingly not always…like even when you’re sending a text to a friend on the other side of the bar (that reads “HELP!”) while saying you don’t own a cell phone. I have trouble feeling any sympathy for boys this stupid.

BS!!! Just the other day a guy I really liked asked me out for the first time…I didn’t have my cell with me when he called (it’s called I WORK for a living and often CAN’T talk on my cell during the day!!), so I didn’t even see he’d called until that night (at which point I called back). These stupid scenarios are NO indicator of N-E THING!!! I did go out with him, and I could have been totally turned off by the date, event though I was initially very interested. Point being, these games don’t tell ya SQUAT, you have to give the person a chance and get to know them.
P.S. The date went great, and it was a total turn-on that HE similarly didn’t play any stupid games, set up a date right away, called me right after our date and set up a second date before the first one was over. He gets bonus points for not playing it cool…fellas and ladies, there are PLENTY of people out there who will NOT be shy to show u they’re into you (if they really are), so why waste time with the beeatches and bastards who play games? NO NEED!

What shall I Do ? After she gave me her number she ignored me. As soon as I got her number It tooks me two days to call her back, but after that she just keep listining my message and NO Answer. now it is more than a week, I did call her four times and now I’m Stoped. Is there any Advice for me ? is this a kind of game or anything else ?

Zac

No definite answer Zac, except that you shouldn’t bother calling her anymore. She’s not playing games with you, she’s not interested and hopes you’ll take a hint and quit calling….. consider yourself lucky.

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